The following comes from DrJohnson.com about cross contamination of Koi via Goldfish. It was a case in the Ask The Doc section of the site.
I got your address from my friend Jason who you recently helped with a pecan nut problem.
I may or may not have a KHV problem. If I can give you the story I hope you can tell me if there is anything I should do.
I dug a pond last fall and have 2, 5 inch koi doing fine in it. I have 5, 4 inch koi inside doing very well.
I have a lotus in a whiskey barrel that I've had for sometime and put cheap goldfish in for mosquitoes. They usually die quickly and I never thought much about it until I started reading about KHV and saw pics of Koi with KHV. I remember one of the gold fish having a dark patch on its gill cover that looked like a post mortem shot of a koi with KHV.
I have wintered umbrella palms in the lotus barrel.
So my questions.
1. Should I be concerned
2. Is there a nucleic acid test that can test water
3. Is there a non-invasive nucleic acid test for fish
4. At what point should I bring the outdoor fish to you before I move the indoor fish out.
5. Should I throw out the plants or is it safe to put them in the pond
If there are any products I need to purchase from you, please let me know.
Koi Herpes Virus is not a legitimate liability to goldfish owners.
Testing is a mixed bag – – because if you test and it's positive, you have to (by law) go on record with the Federal Government. It's a "legally reportable" disease so the testing agency has to 'tell on you' and that COULD POTENTIALLY mean that you have to surrender your fish to the Fed and the pond gets drained and closed.
Any Koi that carries KHV in cold water will "break" with it when it's warmed to 70-78 DF
Any Koi that is infected with KHV will 'get over it' when it's warmed to 84 DF.
They're not considered ''cured''. By anyone but me, and also everyone in Israel.
The plants (left without fish for a week or two) will bring no diseases with them to a receiving facility. I can say that with even more certainty if the plants are in the seventies DF when you quarantine them.
So if you think the Koi outdoors are harboring KHV all you have to do is bring one up to 75 degrees and give it a week to break.
And if it doesn't, you're golden, on the KHV issue.
Besides a few recommendations on Amazon.com about heaters and air pumps, I don't officially "sell" anything so you're good there 🙂
I've been through some aquarium filters. And I do keep coming back to sponge filters. And I have powered them with air, and also with water pumps.
Right now, and for the last two or three years, I am depending on CAF250 Sponge Filters. They are built to handle 250 gallon systems and I found them on Amazon at a typographical price. They've always been $27-$35 dollars. Then I found someone selling them for $10 and I've bought like, twenty of them.
I like sponge filters because:
- They run via airpressure, and airstones will oxygenate the tank while the sponge cleans it
- The sponge filters can't suck up food or a fish
- The sponge filters host tons of beneficial bacteria
- The sponge filters are easy to clean. VERY easy to clean.
- Sponge filters last a VERY long time.
In this article (link) I've shown you the filters, and linked a way to get them for $10. It's February 2020 so I don't know when you're reading this or if the sponge filters will still be ten bucks when you look.
But they're called CAF250 Sponge Filters. They're made by AquaTop.
If my link is broken in this article, please pop over to DrJOhnson.com and let me know using the contact form. (Ask the Doc)
The Top Ten Things You Need To Know and Master For Success With a Koi Pond
The Super Basics of Koi
Figures out all the following:
Inventories quality, informational resources for a deeper understanding
But the most successful garden-variety hobbyist:
Feeds decent food, redundantly supplies their pond electrical, supports lively water movement and intercepts temperature impacts, knows their water's quality via periodic basic water testing with strips, feeds sparingly and never gets new fish. Removes excess fish each year and avoids any drastic changes in population or water. If new fish are in the plan, quarantines new fish before deploying.
You should have one inch of fish per ten gallons of pond water. You can have a bunch more koi than that IF the filtration and water quality will support them. To calculate pond volume figure out approximate length, width and depth in inches. Multiply them thusly: Length inches x Width inches x Depth inches = Product then divide the product by 231 and there you have US Gallons. If you have a mess of small fish, like goldfish and under 6" you can have a lot more than an inch of fish per ten gallons. But the larger koi have more "mass" and oxygen requirements and put out more wastes and so they push the number down to one inch per ten gallons.
2. New Fish
The main source of parasites / germs is new koi. For the most part, "closed collections" don't get parasites as a "new thing". To avoid parasites and even some germ infections, quarantine is imperative which stymies the pathological "impulse buyer" but you know, live with your decisions.
3. Their water:
Water Movement is probably the most important thing in a pond. Most of the time when fish have poor body language, clamping and lethargic, it's a lack of aeration and water movement in warm weather. How much water movement is needed?
Aeration is the single most important parameter with a close second being pH because of 'crash'
Another area NOT to be ignorant of is water chemistry. Seriously. Flying blind is just ignorant unless your collection of koi is entirely expendable. MOST people have their koi and pond problems from chemistry, especially pH.
Chemicals like pH, and nitrogen.
Nitrogen is represented by Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate. You should understand the basics of all of these. You're not going to do "okay" for very long without understanding how Nitrate comes back to bite you in the butt. It's the SINGLE MOST COMMON cause of chronic illness in the ponds of "know it all" pond and Koi keepers. They do a LOT correctly except they make VAST assumptions about their water quality because they think they can eyeball water quality.
Water needs to be turned over and replaced with new water from time to time. At LEAST 10% per week. I run a constant slow water drip all the time. That's because I'm lazy and don't like to change water. Topping off the pond is not a water change unless the pond leaks. Evaporation CONCENTRATES chemistry. Doesn't dilute it. When you replace water "fill and drain style" you need to apply a chemical "dechlorinator" to neutralize caustic chlorine that's added to city water to disinfect it. If you're using well water it's not a "thing" but you might check the pH of the well water to know if it's low.
Pond location and impact of temperature
If your pond is in the shade then it might get lots of leaves in it. And if it does, those leaves will decay and reduce the pH. If the water gets stained a "tea color" with leaf tannins (from leaves on and off the tree interestingly) the tea colored water will usually have a low pH, will slow healing of wounds in the Spring, and never grow algae. Tannins are anti-algae.
A pond in full sun is prone to algae blooms, won't have leaves in it, will not have much in the way of leaf-pH dynamic. But the water will be warmer and WARM WATER carries less oxygen so water movement and aeration are critical. If water movement fails in the hot pond in mid summer because, say, power outage, the Koi are gonna die.
4. Koi and Pond fish filtration:
So when you start out or you inherit a pond, the "filter" might sound simple but usually it's not. They need maintenance of some kind. And they may or may not be "big enough" and an assessment is needed. I use ecosystem ponds with plants and gravel and a waterfall, happily. It takes MAJOR maintenance once yearly. I also run some systems on Bead Filters which pass the water through beads to clean it. VERY easy to clean, but frequently, and they can jam up suddenly, they die in the sun if the power goes out, and are a little expensive.
In "ecosystem" ponds like Aquascape's, the filter is actually PART of the pond and is invisible.[/caption]
In any event, you should learn about filtration in earnest. For the beginner, an ecosystem installation or a bead filter would be your two best, scalable options. Cleanliness and maintenance of said filtration and water are paramount. Get educated by a knowledgeable installer or retailer of filters.
When filtration is needed or not
Well if the pond is large and the fish load is quite small, you probably won't need a filter. If there's a lot of water movement and the water is clear and there's not a bunch of cloudiness or particulate clouding, you might not need a filter. If the water tests okay with dip tests, you might not need a filter.
5. Their feeding
Overfeeding is super common. Just don't. Koi do best when you have a ten year old feeding them and they forget to feed every fourth day or so. Underfeeding is better than overfeeding. If your koi are fat, something's wrong and your water quality is probably paying a price. Fat koi are just fine. Feed twice a day, tops. Feed what they wanna eat in under ten minutes. Five minutes would be even better. Don't feed near the skimmer or it'll take the food and give it to the filter unnecessarily.
What to feed. Feeding the right food is pretty important but really, in the scheme of things, it's uncommon for a poor food choice to kill or sicken fish. Even catfish chow (while really inadequate) will just result in fatty livers and increased vulnerability to disease, not kill them. Here's where to learn all about Koi foods, and even some recommendations.
When Not to Feed and Why. So if your pond is large, natural and has ecosystem forage (plants, tadpoles, swimmy bugs, stuff like that, and the fish load is light, you might not need to feed. If the pond is a tech-pond without plants nor gravel you need to feed. There's no natural forage.
6. Fish Body Language
Koi and pond fish body language is just an Early warning system for disease or poor water quality.
Here are some pointers:
- If the fish are moving around, curious about food they're probably okay
- If the fish are NOT using their pectoral fins (the ones behind the head) they're sick.
- If the koi are wagging their bodies to swim, and not using fins at all, they're about to die.
- If the fish have clamped fins but then swim normally when you show up, something's going on. Like a too high temperature or a sagging pH.
Survival is suggested by at least some willingness to eat, moving around.
Body wag is probably a goner.
Where they come from? Parasites CAN "just happen" and they can be "carried" for a long time without causing disease until Winter reduces the fish's immune system. Or, more commonly, parasites are not a "thing" until you buy some WITH PARASITES already on them. Quarantine fixes and prevents that. It's easier to treat in quarantine and keeps your existing koi safe. VIDEO ON QUARANTINE
How'd you know they had them? Poor body language is an indicator something's not right. Usually that's a sagging pH and or a low dissolved oxygen. But if those two aren't going on, maybe parasites are a "thing". Fish will scratch on tank / pond surfaces and rocks, like "flashing" and they'll also show up with red skin, red veins in their fins, stop eating and develop a slimy skin. (All those symptoms happen in pH crash, too)
-Water quality is 3 to 1 over parasites for the source of illness. Yes and that's annoying. People OFTEN contact me and ask what medicine to use for this or that symptom they're seeing. Or the medicine isn't working. The koi gets worse. So I ask them what the pH is. What the Ammonia is. What the Nitrate is. And they get back to me with a number WAY out of range, they fix that, and no medicine was even needed.
8. Bacterial Infections – Rot
What sores mean: Sores just mean the fish have "gone through something" that broke their immune system. Cold water, over crowding, high nitrogen levels, a low pH, wintertime, low dissolved oxygen, cold water, excess handling and parasites chewing on the skin are all very common causes. Just exposure to bacteria (even the baddest of the bad) don't CAUSE bacterial infections.
What you can do: You have to diagnose what happened, what "they went through" and then fix that. Provide an optimal environment. And then perhaps apply antimicrobial treatments to the water, in the food, by injection. Literally everything you would NEED to know in order to deal with bacterial infections is at my DrJohnson Youtube page. But also:
What you can probably not do: You can't save fish that are:
-Too far gone
-You may not be able to obtain or give injections of antibiotics but they work great. Perhaps you could find a vet that can help. Injections for really valuable ones
–Water treatments for other cases like Potassium permanganate or Chloramine T.
9. Viral Infections
What viruses are there, in general: If you don't get more fish, viruses aren't a "thing" for you to worry about. But there are viruses out there which will kill almost all your fish. The main one is Koi Herpes Virus. It depends on water temperatures to kill fish. Under 70 degrees Fahrenheit, it's inactive. Above 80 degrees Fahrenheit, it dies off. Fish are saved. If you quarantine fish according to the video mentioned above, and the fish achieve a temperature in the low eighties, Koi Herpes Virus is a non-issue.
Other viruses include viruses that cause warts, little waxy droplets on the skin, and are not lethal. Spring Viremia of Carp is a common disease that appears to be endemic (in everything) to north America and causes depression of the immune system potentiating bacterial infections. You wouldn't know if your fish had this, because if you test for it, you're likely to get a positive, and then you will have your pond closed, killed off, and quarantined.
10. Shutting down for winter
When not to feed: Koi and pond fish do better in very cold water WITHOUT food in their tracts. It's a good idea to suspend feeding when the water temperatures sail down below 55 DF — IF you can anticipate the temperatures are going to decline FURTHER like a typical temperate climate. (North American near freezing) – However in Portland and other geography, the ponds might hit 55 and NOT go down, so those aren't "heading to icy" and so if the temperatures are going to hover above 40 DF you should feed Cheerios.
When to shut down the filters? You can keep your filters running unless it's going to freeze and you have to "winterize" the filters, so you ought to talk to your installer or filtration manufacturer about how to deal with temperatures prevailing in your area. If your filter has a return under water or which won't super cool the pond, you can leave it on. The biological activity of the filter will be sadly lacking so feed less, or feed Cheerios.
How to turn water over
-When you don't really have to: When water is in the low forties and lower, it carries all the oxygen it can. So water movement isn't a "thing" at that point. I mean, SOME water movement is important but that's mainly for gas release (CO2 etc) rather than Oxygenation.
-Striking the ice – It is a myth that if you strike the ice over pond fish, they will die or go deaf. In fact, sometimes fish die under the ice and that had NOTHING to do with someone breaking the ice. Usually it's the fact that they even HAD to break ice. Ice need to have a hole or gas exchange gap in the surface. If you have to use a floating cattle trouble heater, do it.
-What Springtime means: Springtime is tough on Koi and pond fish because typically:
- The fish have gone hungry all winter
- The fish have been cold and their immune system is warmth-fired.
- Parasites don't care if it's cold and can strike in cold water with extra vengeance.
- Water bacteria (purification bacteria) are largely dormant so water quality is at it's lowest.
- A winter's worth of fish excreta and plant material / last year's mulm are all suspended in time, and break down as soon as water temps rise. It's a surge in algae / bacterial nutrition.
Did You Know that the "Pharmacy" operating within Chewy, Petsmart, PetcareRx and Petmeds is the same company? To be honest, I felt like Chewy (especially) really sank to the next level when they hopped into bed with that clan.
The most annoying thing about these p.o.s. "pet" pharmacies.
When you see their advertisement on TV and go to their site, people start looking around and they see stuff they think might be good for their pet.
So they order it. Because you can. You can order anything those pharmacies sell, of your own volition.
But often, it requires a prescription, so the Pet Pharmacy (supposedly a human being there, ha ha ha!!!) sends me a prescription to authorize.
And it's for something that would kill the client's cat SO FAST, it wouldn't even get to my office in time for stomach pumping.
It doesn't work that way at human pharmacies: People can't just walk up to a human pharmacist and say "I think my pet needs this, please send prescription authorization to my Vet." Pet Pharmacies oblige this CONSTANTLY. What idiots.
I get prescription authorizations for:
- Flea control that kills cats (Products for dogs only)
- Nsaids that kill cats (Acetaminophen in the formula)
- Two of the same category (redundant) medications,
- Two antagonistic medications for heart conditions because 'my grandfather takes that and I thought it would help my dog",
- A dose on thyroid medications so low that it wouldn't help a church mouse, (Owner and Dr Google just guessed the dog had thyroid problems)
- Heartworm pill refills for three years in a row with the prescription date LITERALLY hand scratched out,
- An authorization for brand Vetoryl when the generic would have been a quarter the price. (I should have let the client pay for the $50 stuff instead of pointing him at the $12 stuff)
- Heartworm pills at $4 off per box while we were running a buy-two-get-one from the manufacturer at the office.
- Authorizations for fake heartworm pills.
- Fake authorizations for real heartworm pills. (Yeah, these onlines will take almost handwritten prescriptions)
- Heartworm pills with Dutch (?) labeling from South Africa or something?
There's more, except the number of instances is rarer.
One of these days they'll go in and take the licenses away from the "pharmacists" working in those shops. But tbh I doubt that would impede the big wheels turning in that industry. So I said all that to say this: Use a human pharmacy instead of a "pet" pharmacy. There are SEVEN human pharmacies that do animal products. They're on my website. They're VIPPS accredited (not just dot-pharmacy domain holders) and they're legitimate.
I don't buy JVZoo apps anymore, the whole show is just a joke. "Lifetime access" to buggy, inadequate software – pays for the launch startup. They fix the app's bugs and add the promised assets and THEN sell it to the so-called lifetime members as "different" software (Version 2) at retail.
Todd Gross is a two bit huckster. Be careful what you endorse. People are getting sick of buying software again that they had "lifetime access" to.
Gross: Oh, no this isn't the same software you bought. This is NEW different software.
Me: You mean, it's the same software with the bugs worked out, and the resources and assets you promised it would have finally added, and now it's "Version II" and I get to pay again?
Gross: Well, you don't have to, you could certainly stay with the buggy Version I software while the rest of us use Version II which is different software you can buy at retail.
Me: Is it going to be that way with every JVZoo offering?
Gross: How would we pay for launches if we didn't loop people into the prototype? And how would we pay our bills unless we kept selling the applications to people again and again?
Me: So far, every software I've bought from JVZoo has been offered to me to buy (again) as Version II I presume the rest will be done that way?
Gross: Why not?
Without taking too much of your time, let me show you some new resources, which are of benefit to Dog, Cat, Koi and Pondfish Lovers.
I did a page and a video on dental cleaning in dogs and WHY – it's not just cosmetic in fact that's secondary: It's actually the comfort of the dog to eliminate / control dental disease with recession of the gum line and exposure of roots. Also, and MOST importantly, the elimination of bacteria going from the very capillary-rich gums into the airway, and bloodstream.
I also did a video and page on a Way to control and eliminate bad breath in dogs SIMPLY by addition of a product called Oxyfresh to the dog's water. It's a perishable disinfectant that the dog can safely drink, and then it's inactivated by the HCl (stomach acid) — so there's no disinfection of the "good Bacteria" in the gut. That's here.
A video you might also like is about Koi and Pond Fish Ulcer Disease. This link takes you to a three video series which covers the causes, and management of Koi Ulcer Disease / Body Sores and Finrot. It's a Springtime disorder for the most part. You will learn a LOT from the video.
Lastly for this resource announcement is a way of supporting pH in your pond or aquarium. It makes "PH Crash" a thing of the past. The video talks about a PILL made of Plaster of Paris. The video shows you HOW to make the pills, WHY to make them, WHEN to use them, WHEN NOT to use them, HOW they work, HOW LONG they usually last, and a LOT more. That's why the "pH PIll" videos are a series of three starting with the link I put in this paragraph.
I hope you like these items.
How To Support pH in Aquatic Systems like ponds and aquaria with more convenience and even better residual safety.
There are two videos on Youtube done by Dr. Erik Johnson regarding a way to make a pH Buffer into a pill form, that slowly dissolves to support pH and prevent pH Crash. A real thing.
It's as easy as making pills of Plaster of Paris but then again, it's NOT that simple. You need the right Plaster and you need to make sure they are VERY dry before you use them.
- What fish should NOT be exposed to PH Pills?
- Where should you put the pH Pills?
- How long do they last and what impacts that?
- What do you make these in and how does the oven factor in their production?
My second marriage was driven by an issue of hardship for the mother.
She had lost her husband to prison, and suddenly had inadequate income to support their four kids.
So before her husband had even been sentenced, she was on EHarmony and picked me out. She researched my veterinary license and checked me out on social media to make sure that I was a strong earner, and basically a good person, and reached out. She used her counseling skills to assess my needs, and provided those. I’m a “fixer” and I was needed, and made to feel that way.
I adopted the kids within months at the request of their family, to protect them from their father who was in prison for abuse of those kids. But that was my undoing.
She and her kids were emotionally and financially supported for four and a half years. When she no longer needed me because her new business had become profitable (I paid her car note, cell phone, insurance and 100% of her needs while her new business startup was in the red), I was ejected from the family in a extremely hostile divorce complaint, a result of which is I am saddled with providing $200,000 in alimony, health insurance coverage and child support for seven years. We were only married for 4 1/2 years and not a drop of my blood flows in their veins. I am paying child support for kids that aren't even of my making, and I've only known for 4.5 years. Even her parents turned on me as a financial target (and bankrolled her divorce proceedings). Ironically, my Alimony reimburses her for the entire expense. (“And then some”).
The adoption had been intended to protect the kids from their actual father, but it turned out to be nefariously intended for their mother’s financial portfolio as well.
I have to live with the fact that I was just a pragmatic solution, a necessary “utensil”. Obviously not particularly wanted, loved, respected or valued.
Or at least not valued for anything that couldn’t be replaced by the letter of the law in a divorce proceeding, than would be provided in a marriage. Namely, a male presence and emotional availability. The message was clear: “That will be all, my drone, you may go now, but your money stays.”
Less than 60 days after filing for divorce, she was back on E harmony chatting with doctors; (including myself under the pseudonym of a Canton radiologist of the appropriate age and income level).
When I realized that I was just a tool, it annihilated my trust and belief in that family. I had never encountered anything so reptilian.
On sad reflection, I believe that besides myself, the most significant victims are the children. Besides a few years of marriage, I have no significant ties to the adults/history/culture of that family. Besides my longterm financial tether, I can completely exit the blast radius of that kind of calculating, Machiavellian world-view. The kids were born into it, and may have difficulty avoiding some of the behaviors they may internalize as ‘normal’.
My hope is that some day I will be regarded accurately as the gullible ‘patsy’ that bought their freedom from mandatory visitation with their biological father and who paid their way until they were 18.
#KarriLynnJohnson #Karri-Lynn-Johnson #Karri-Wright #Karri-Williams
I don't think Koi and Goldfish viruses could be covered better than the following documents. These are things I found online visiting some sites while I got my USDA/accreditation. They open as flip books. You have to have Flash but they open plain, Flash, regular and mobile. Pretty neat.
The viruses covered include Spring viremia, the Herpes Viruses. Koi and Goldfish both get Herpes Viruses.
The BEST one of all is something you haven't seen unless you went for your Veterinary Accreditation for USDA and took the module – – Emerging Viruses of Koi and Goldfish.
Also a link or two to some recent videos I released lately.